Finding Co-founder Success with Author and Serial Entrepreneur Tanis Jorge

[00:00:00] We don't put a lot of thought into this person that is going to join you on this journey and put the amount of time and effort into ensuring it works when it is the foundation of the business.

[00:00:18] The statistic is that 65% of businesses built with a partnership will fail because of issues between the founders. Hi, welcome to Founders in the Wild. I'm your host Dave Mori. We're based here in Vancouver and today my guest is Serial Entrepreneur and author of Co-Founders Handbook, Tanis Jorge.

[00:00:51] Hi there! All right so thank you again for joining us. Thank you. So I'd like to start at the beginning if you don't mind. Maybe take us back. I know you started your first business right out of high school, but was starting a company something you always wanted

[00:01:06] to do? Was it something you watched as a child? Talk us through it. Yeah, you bet you. So I grew up in an entrepreneurial family actually. My dad was a door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesman

[00:01:18] in his early years and when they moved to BC and I was born he did it. He had sold his vacuum cleaner business and then started with Yellow Pages. He was actually a Yellow Page salesman

[00:01:33] and but growing up he often shared like the sales principles that he learned from being in business and as well in sales and so that was I think really late a foundation for me

[00:01:48] in learning about setting your own destiny and being in charge of whatever it is that you want to do. My dad always used to say to me, he used to say life is a numbers game and if you

[00:02:03] just run through the numbers whatever it is you set your hand to you'll succeed and I guess I I guess I took that to heart because I believed that it wasn't about my smarts. It wasn't about

[00:02:17] you know the right timing. I just believed that it was a numbers game and so I think that mentality sort of must have stuck into me because I think ultimately that's what leads to entrepreneurship you know is this believing that if I just work hard enough at something

[00:02:33] and of course there's other elements but I think that was a big key piece so that was a foundation that led me to really believe that maybe entrepreneurship was going to be the route

[00:02:42] that I was going to go. So cool, so cool. All right well it's funny so I think we had talked about my dad was also a vacuum cleaner. Yeah I know and I've met other people too who have

[00:02:51] had family who have been like this is a thing okay you know. And they sound very similar so tenacity involved in selling something. Totally yeah it's raw sales when you're

[00:03:01] knocking on people's door like you really that's that's raw sales. Yeah I can't wait for him to do this later. Well okay so now you know today we'll be infusing lots about your book and but I

[00:03:15] really want people to hear your story right so you come out of high school did you know that you wanted to start a business or did it kind of just happen? Tell us about that.

[00:03:26] Well just briefly when I was 17 I started an Amway business and I don't know how many people know what the backdrop is but Amway if you think of it as kind of like a Walmart right

[00:03:41] they're the supplier they have the products and you do but behind that when you start an Amway business you actually end up signing up to like a business teaching group and that's what happened we when

[00:03:54] we started I say we because it was my boyfriend to be my future husband later we started this Amway business but we ended up joining an organization called Worldwide Dream Builders and in that it was like a business training and so it had this really incredible business

[00:04:14] for a lay person so it was like a book a month you had to read and there was tapes because we were that old there was tapes to listen to every week of people's stories and how they succeeded in

[00:04:24] their business and then there was conferences to attend throughout the year and then you had mentors who you spoke to about business and and you had two 17-year-old kids who were really mentored in free enterprise entrepreneurship the basics of business nothing fancy or anything

[00:04:41] but just the basics of business and we I like to say poor programmed to think outside the box and while we never ended up building an Amway business we actually stayed part of this organization for probably about seven years and it was like a seven years

[00:05:01] of business education like day in and out we really jumped into it and so that laid the foundation so by the end of it I was like I don't want to go to work for somebody else I want to be my own

[00:05:12] boss and so that's really what I think had me decide I'm not going to do college or university I'm going to do something that's my own business and that I think was where the first seeds were

[00:05:23] planted yeah that's huge yeah and Amway got you know great place to learn and then building your network like that yeah so now tell us about the actual founding of I think it was I query yeah

[00:05:34] I query so Stephen who was my best friend in high school we were inseparable but then after high school we drifted a little and so one day about a year out of out of high school he reached out to

[00:05:46] me and said listen I have a business idea I found a business that is happening in the US but it's not available here in Canada do you want to start it with me and I remembered how awesome

[00:06:00] hanging out with him and doing school projects were that I thought you know even on the worst side of things we're just going to get to hang out and do a cool project together and so I said

[00:06:11] okay so it was in the online credit reporting industry it was getting access to your credit report online and and no one had done it yet here in Canada so we thought okay we'll take the

[00:06:24] model that's in the US and we'll build it up here in Canada and that's how I query was started that's huge so did you raise funding for it did you bootstrap not really we pretty much bootstrapped

[00:06:35] but we also had friends and family so he had his his family and some of his family friends that that did it we did work with some programmers and different things and work on a strategic

[00:06:47] alliance in that respect but for all it has some purposes it was just through family and friends on our own bootstrapping so yeah it was on our own it was your classic startup like

[00:06:59] scraping through what's going to happen we had no idea if we you know what the end result was going to be but early on we did decide we were building this company for an acquisition

[00:07:12] and we did we did identify who we thought was going to acquire us so we built our business to accommodate that company and I think that's a strategy for entrepreneurs yeah so

[00:07:25] you had the vision for who you wanted the eventual acquire to be then your work did you work backwards from there yeah and if so kind of walk us through that yeah like I said in the first

[00:07:35] in iQuery it was really modeling after a pre-existing business model that was in another country right in the US and so we took their model and we applied it to the Canadian market

[00:07:48] and then we looked at you know what they did how we could it how we could integrate into them if they were to acquire us and we just built it backwards yeah we made sure we modeled it so

[00:07:59] that if they were to bring us on it would be an easy you know you know integration and that yeah that was pretty much it was more difficult than that because the regulatory environment in

[00:08:10] Canada was very different than the US but that was yeah that was how we modeled it and then talk us through getting the first customers right so you need people to actually be paying for at least

[00:08:24] or maybe you can even tell us about what was the business model at that time that was kind of like that the late 90s would have been the internet boom there were lots of froth around investment

[00:08:33] into companies like this but you bootstrapped right we were on our own kind of you were being a little different yeah tell us about how the actual technology was and then eventually

[00:08:42] how did you start to court your your desired acquire yeah so we at the time affiliate marketing was kind of on the startup that's kind of getting really aging myself right now but affiliate marketing was really the go-to so that's what we did we identified companies like

[00:09:03] free credit report comm and like all these sort of credit report networks that were were coming of age and so we just sort of plunked ourselves into that and one of the things that Stephen and I

[00:09:16] did and do very well is taking an idea and building the foundation for that and so with iQuery it took us about two and a half two years to to build up to you know to get the

[00:09:29] contracts from the credit bureaus there was a lot of the regulatory like i said the regulatory environment in Canada was very difficult so we were a bc-based company but ended up finding

[00:09:39] it we had to be Calgary based because that province had a very unique structure that we could actually do what we were doing in Canada so there was a lot of setup that took place

[00:09:51] and then once the product was built we really just wanted proof of concept we really wanted just to show that we could deliver a product and and it was you know a feasible business model

[00:10:03] once we had that up and going the decision was do we market it and scale it or is now the time for acquisition and that's what we chose this the latter we chose the latter. Did you just ring them

[00:10:13] up? Did you meet the Metacoprants? Yeah basically we kind of started a conversation when we rang them up introduced ourselves um and then one day we got an email just a random email and said

[00:10:24] hey this is uh Experian at the M&A department and we recognize you for what you're doing uh do you have time for a conversation and and carried on like yeah we do we're like yes this is what we

[00:10:38] we foresaw and off we went yeah yeah it was very fun. All right so you are in your early 20s you have had a successful exit what did that do to you as like a you know you're you're a young adult

[00:10:54] yeah you know and I you know I'm assuming this was slightly life changing for you yeah did it kind of what did it do to your to your drive I I I know your your trajectory of you starting more companies

[00:11:07] right especially in the same space but like where were you at especially you and Steven did you think you know let's go you know but you go your way I go my way let's go retire yeah what was

[00:11:18] your mindset yeah I think after each company Steven and I always looked at each other and was like well that was fun you know that goodbye you know kind of like that's over but what ended up happening

[00:11:30] with hindsight is that we had found ourselves in a very unique little niche and we had positioned ourselves as what we called the Switzerland of identity which meant we never ever like tied

[00:11:42] ourselves to an exclusive in anything and so what happened is we kind of got known as hey you can work with these guys because they're not tied to any one particular credit bureau or one particular company

[00:11:54] and so when we shook hands and said okay that was great we had a success under our belt not too long later we got a phone call and we're introduced to another opportunity and we just

[00:12:06] found ourselves back oh let's explore that and then the next thing you know we're like okay we're I guess we're starting another business and that's where NCP data services jumped in from the second time around yeah and that one was like so the first business you started built

[00:12:21] and sold within what was that four years three years okay and then the second one was even faster no it was three years as well okay they were both three all three of them were three years

[00:12:32] like we I don't know it's incredible three years was our magic number but did you do that business the same way did you say okay let's start this because you ended up selling to the same that's

[00:12:41] right to the same company yeah and did you kind of did you know they had a kind of a gap that you wanted to fill yeah yeah we ended up having a very unique conversation with the aquire of our

[00:12:52] first company and we identified a need of theirs and so when we left that meeting we said let's go make that happen and then we'll call them up again and say hey you know what you wanted

[00:13:06] we just made it happen and so that's what we did so we walked out of that meeting and we went out and we and facilitated the needs of this aquire as well as the needs of the company

[00:13:19] that we were working with and so we worked with another national Canadian credit bureau to help bring them across the country and then we helped orchestrate their acquisition and in that acquisition we orchestrated our second company's acquisition at the same time that's crazy okay so now again

[00:13:38] still early 20 yeah now we're sold two businesses yes what even made you consider starting your third one yeah and again in the same sector yeah and i want to ask you after you answer this one but

[00:13:51] like i want to ask you how did you not get locked up yeah you often hear people want to lock you up with some kind of oh yeah compete totally yeah totally so now like what made you go into your

[00:14:02] third now yeah this is just it's crazy once again a very niche market facilitates opportunity i think if you can get yourself in a little space and become known as the experts and and easy to work

[00:14:15] with and so our third company now another company who heard about us they were looking to expand internationally their company cruel international they did identity like employee identity background checks and such and they wanted to expand their identity fraud products into

[00:14:34] Canada and Australia and we had connections there and so they just reached out to us and said would you help facilitate that we said i guess we're starting another company again and we helped them

[00:14:45] create an insurance product for identity fraud in Canada and then as well in the US and we worked with them over three years to get that built out and then they bought us out so that was our third

[00:14:58] one as well so yeah it just again it's it's just finding the niche and and and just figuring out a way that your company become became so valuable that that it made sense you have eagles we do right

[00:15:12] next to us here that it looks like a it's a classic bc moment right now pause for the eagles for any of you watching on youtube this is also very classic and uber winter weather and i'm so

[00:15:26] she's i'm really happy you agreed to do this in this weather but we lucked out this is like the only non rainy day this week it's very true yeah it's very rare and we have eagles

[00:15:37] cue the eagles for the venkubra scene well that's so cool all right well so you've had these two exits or now three p exits did you did you consider like now i can retire did you wonder this i did

[00:15:53] in the sense that at this point i said okay i've given up my 20s to business and i want to start a family so once we sold our third company ferris we um that like once again shook hands and said

[00:16:08] i guess it's time to to move on and i said i'm gonna start a family so i ended up having two kids uh 18 months apart and um and then steven reached out to me once again and said listen

[00:16:24] remember one of those ideas we had i'm gonna head down to silicon valley because we had never really well we had never raised money and he he really felt like it would be great to have that experience

[00:16:34] for him it was an experience and he said i'm gonna go down there and work on this do you want do you want to do it again and i said well no i have i'm starting a family but

[00:16:46] to avoid paying taxes of money still sitting in one of our companies he said well let's use this money to build this business uh some seed money and instead of giving it to the

[00:16:56] government let's put it to work for ourselves and i'll be like a silent partner and again we'll go out and we'll see what this idea does so he headed down to the silicon valley down to

[00:17:05] sunny veil and we began doing some r&d on this product and uh we started a i had a i had a we had a small engineering team of two that i managed just while that was being built and then

[00:17:20] steven was doing r&d and then eventually decided you know what maybe we should raise money and so we headed down that road and a year and a half later uh we raised our first uh seed

[00:17:31] round that's crazy so wait what was the first seed round it was a two million dollar round from lombard capital yeah it was at the time that was a you know your average and uh and yeah it

[00:17:44] it really set the course for us to um one of the things that was great about um raising money in silicon valley is we were able to really use that as um a form of uh reputation whenever

[00:17:58] we went around we would say we're a silicon valley funded company and there was something about that that really kind of in people's minds put us at a higher level than unfortunately then like just

[00:18:09] staying on a van cooper funded company and it was a cash that was really valuable to us which we used and really laid into uh frequently throughout the uh the growth of the business it's really helpful

[00:18:21] you're you know now maybe you can tell us about what what the company is because yes you're one of the few tech unicorns out of van cooper and i think that's probably really great advice to

[00:18:31] consider where your funding sources are yes so that you can help prevent what i i've even experienced it's kind of a discrimination against perhaps canadian companies or at least they just imagine

[00:18:41] that you're not serious right yeah but maybe tell us about that yeah so um what we brought to them was the idea of building like an online form of identity verification using your cyber

[00:18:53] footprint uh so that was the idea and then that particular way of identifying you could use in in different aspects such as um if you're going on a date you we could do some sort of um can someone

[00:19:08] refer or or say that yes you are who you say you are through these sort of online channels like linkedin or facebook or using your social graph and so that was where it really started and we

[00:19:18] had a powerpoint and a bit of a beta and that was what we took to to market it was very innovative at the time now using you know your social information is a little more um out there but at the time was

[00:19:30] extremely innovative and we really relied on our expertise that we had in previous ventures to say listen you need to listen to us we understand identity we understand this space and you need to

[00:19:43] um you need to trust us as the as the leaders and that's one of the things that I came to learn is that investors especially when you're seeking money for a new venture they're looking at the idea

[00:19:56] but they're really looking at you are you able to do this again and so I think as a as an entrepreneur who's going to try and raise money you really also outside of your business model

[00:20:08] and idea you really have to identify why you are the person to be able to make this happen and that was a key piece of it yeah well and I think you kind of you had stacked three exits

[00:20:20] up before I'm sure that you had that kind of the you had the wind in the sails a lot of momentum what advice do you have for entrepreneurs that don't have that kind of level of success

[00:20:32] going into there especially their first business but even perhaps their second if their first wasn't successful and they want to go into another one they have this great idea you have the advice

[00:20:41] for how they may be able to to kind of get a little more credibility yeah absolutely well if you remember I know our three previous companies we built them over three years and then they

[00:20:52] exited so they were all exited kind of early stage and so when we were meeting with investors they said okay clearly you know how to start a company but can you scale the business can you

[00:21:01] take it to the next level and so we had to find ways to prove that we were good at what we did that we were good founders that we had the foundation in our knowledge and our ability to do things

[00:21:14] to do that so one of the ways we did that was we built an incredible board of advisors and we went out and found people in different industries leaders in their industries who heard about what we were trying to build and put their stamp of approval on it

[00:21:30] and that was so powerful when we went to raise money it was like hey we're great at this but look who is backing us you know head of identity at google you know ex-ctos at paypal you know all

[00:21:44] these incredible people who said I've heard what these guys are trying to do I'm a leader in this industry as well and what they're doing makes sense so I would tell any entrepreneur

[00:21:56] again make sure that you've also stacked why you're an amazing founder but also go out and identify people who will hear what you're trying to do and say I think that's going to work

[00:22:07] and then they stamp your approval they get on your board of advisors and you that's another slide on your deck when you go out and pitch so you may have had capital to to give them some kind

[00:22:19] of advisory fee yeah but do you have any other creative strategies for compensating advisors yeah options or any other yeah yeah I think ultimately options is great that was what we did

[00:22:33] yeah it is really important to find a way that that really does give advisors some sort of feedback a letter of recommendation allowing them to put that they're on your advisory board even if your company becomes successful down the road repaying that advisory board with

[00:22:54] some sort of public recognition into what that they've done anything that you can do you might not have a lot in the beginning but really even asking them hey what can I do in exchange for

[00:23:05] this I can give you some options but is there any other way that I can support you and let them do that but yeah it's a great question because I think a lot of entrepreneurs ask and then they don't

[00:23:16] reward for people's time and experience and expertise so especially if you're busy yeah oh definitely and then they look back later and oh yeah it's so true yeah it's so true that's

[00:23:27] super great okay so you had you know the build-up years and I know that truly it was you know very well known in the community here it's well known in the kind of identity space

[00:23:41] the company grew to evaluation at 2021 over a billion dollars 1.65 you did a very large funding round yes extremely successful at that time you then stepped down from the board and since then you've been still very active so tell us about what you've been doing since you

[00:23:59] stepped off the board so when I knew that I was going to step out of the day-to-day at Trulio and because I had decided at a certain point that I remember I had a young family at this point

[00:24:11] and I really wanted to be able to you know just be at home that was really important to me so at about five years into five or six years into being co of Trulio I decided

[00:24:24] that it was time for me to step out of the day-to-day but when I made that decision I thought well what else am I going to do what interests me what inspires me and I thought of two things I liked

[00:24:33] I like travel and I love public speaking so I thought okay so what do I want to talk about and so one of the things I thought like a talk about entrepreneurship obviously have

[00:24:43] background in that but it's already pretty heavy space a lot of people in there and then I thought I could talk about a woman in tech because that was something that I often would get asked to speak on

[00:24:54] but that role it wasn't necessarily something that I that resonated with me but the other thing that I would often get asked to meet founders about was their co-founder partnership and they would say to me I see that you've had this co-founder for now like whatever 20 years

[00:25:09] and how have you managed to make it work because it's a very difficult relationship have you navigated this and I thought that's what I could talk about that's what I could do so I thought okay

[00:25:19] I'm gonna I'm just going to do some research and chart talking to co-founders about their partnerships how did they succeed and as I started to do that and meet with people I realized wow there's a lot of people suffering in a partnership right now and you don't hear

[00:25:32] these stories and I thought maybe I need to write a book about this because I think I could write it from the angle of those in the trenches who've been there and their wisdom

[00:25:44] and their advice they're there I wish I had or if only I had those moments were so powerful and so that was when I decided you know I'm gonna write a book you wrote the co-founders

[00:25:55] handbook and I loved it I love business books and you can see I've highlighted and I've started and I'm going to be giving this to any new founders that I love it I mean I like I've had a lot of success

[00:26:12] in having different co-founders one was a brother-in-law right it ended up working out great awesome happy to hear that but he and I had other kind of founding partners for some of the

[00:26:23] businesses okay and a lot of what you described here I wish I had done but we ended up making out fine and kind of like separating from partners who just you know and you basically you described a

[00:26:35] lot of it but the way that you you know incorporated real life stories is very effective because I think most people when they're reading books they can't relate to the information being shared yeah and

[00:26:48] I know I don't want to share too many secrets I want you to go out and I'll put the link in the show notes for this for you but can you share just some of the like I guess high level I guess

[00:27:01] words of wisdom when someone is considering starting a business and they feel that they need to have a co-founder in the business what advice do you have as just kind of the starting

[00:27:10] point beyond going out and getting the book what surprised me and I and I what surprised me and it actually was the way it was for me as well was we don't put a lot of thought

[00:27:26] into this person that is going to join you on this journey and and and put the amount of time and effort into ensuring it works when it is the foundation of the business yes the statistic

[00:27:42] is that 65 percent of businesses built with a partnership will fail because of issues between the founders so the fact that when we start a company with somebody the focus is on the business

[00:27:58] the business the business and never once do people really go okay but let's stop for a minute and let's let's determine if there's any like challenges that we're going to have just based on our lives our personalities our conflict styles how we learn how we communicate because

[00:28:17] those are the things that end up destroying partnerships and so few people ever dive into the relationship with these people that they're partnering with and so what I realized where I did with the book is I wanted to switch that I wanted to say you're going to build

[00:28:35] your business model and then you're going to intentionally look at these people you're going to build a business with and you're going to ensure that partnership is strong you're going to strategize on methods of how you're going to stay honest and truthful with one another

[00:28:48] and and recognize that that relationship is going to be almost as intimate minus a couple things as it is with your like romantic partner that your lives will become so intertwined

[00:29:00] and you have to be ready for that and so that's what I that's my first thing is like don't this is not a set it forget it relationship this is something you got to be intentional on yeah and

[00:29:13] when I was reading this you know I tried to do some things like the partnership agreement the buy and sell agreement but sometimes even bringing that up at the beginning of a

[00:29:22] relationship yes it can be almost offensive yeah but when I had this and I finished I'm like oh my goodness this is so good because this gives people not the excuse but it gives them the ability to say

[00:29:35] you know let's read this together yes and let's talk about the things that we think were really useful yes and then it helps to kind of get that like that whole that whole kind of like

[00:29:45] why are they doing this goes away uh-huh and I'm like my goodness that is going to be so useful and then you had some comments in the back just about communication yeah and around

[00:29:56] like timelines for communication daily weekly monthly yearly that was so smart and I wish I had done it I didn't do that I mean you would kind of do it organically but yeah the way you wrote it

[00:30:06] was just super easy to understand but now but you know in terms of resources yeah can you kind of walk us through I know you've created a organization the co-founders hub yes can you

[00:30:20] tell us a little bit about that yeah absolutely and I will talk to your point about um how hard it is to introduce a strategy to a new co-founder in the early stages I always say like

[00:30:33] in the very beginning you're in the honeymoon phase you are about to build the company that is going to disrupt the world like you are so optimistic like this this coming will not fail

[00:30:43] of course why would you even start it so you're super optimistic the person beside you are just as optimistic you guys are in sync you're like yeah we're going to kill this

[00:30:51] and you're ready to go the last thing you're going to do is go now what if you become an alcoholic and don't come to work anymore should we plan for that you know like there's all these

[00:31:01] like really awkward conversations that you might want to identify ahead of time so that you you know there's a myriad of things that you should discuss like what if you want to have

[00:31:12] your kid join and I don't like your kid and you know there's these really awkward conversations but exactly that the book is like your scapegoat it's like your excuse to to to trigger conversations

[00:31:26] that maybe first off you're worried about in the back of your mind there's a little red flag that you got that you don't want to bring it up so this can be that you know beginning of a

[00:31:36] conversation or it will trigger conversations that I never even thought about how do we talk about equity how do we talk about if we run out of capital but you have extra money and I don't

[00:31:48] so you're going to be the one to put more money in how do we how's that going to be compensated and what does that look like well and the likelihood of that happening is very high

[00:31:58] totally high you never think it is no no no no and there's a myriad of things that can happen so yes the book is that ability to kind of like I love how you said that let's just read this

[00:32:09] together that's why I recommend investors give this to portfolio companies like anybody who is around a founder say here here's a book and then that founder can go oh I got this book from somebody

[00:32:20] I guess we gotta read it inside they're like yes you know so yes anyway that that's that is an important piece and that is what I was trying to create so it was important and I think entrepreneurs

[00:32:33] tend to look at it you know they're very optimistic oh rose colored glasses the dreamers of the world yes the reality is things are going to get rough yes because that is actually maybe the only

[00:32:43] guarantee it is it's going to be tough and you should be prepared yeah for those rough patches by doing a lot of the things described in this book and then you can prevent some of them by

[00:32:53] communicating and and by proactively addressing these things and then like in terms of resources that was one area I struggled with this is going back now even like 15 years we struggled to find

[00:33:06] good clean documents around the buy-sell agreement so we were kind of you know making these Frankenstein things we were pulling stuff offline yes partnership agreement same thing yeah you also outlined

[00:33:18] kind of the the key components of it yes I think that's a that's something that I think I would be interested to hear your thoughts around like advice because that's also with the early stages

[00:33:28] people don't always have a lot of money to pay for lawyers to do these things so how do they do it in a cost-effective way yeah so I think ultimately you have to think about it this way

[00:33:38] how much are you going to invest into this business and you come up with your number 100,000 20,000 whatever it ends up being you're raising 3 million whatever it is the risk of it is of it falling

[00:33:51] apart is very high that number so your partnership if it's 65 percent of the risk of your business failing what is the cost of that loss versus what it is to get a lawyer to draft

[00:34:03] that exit strategy in case it does fall apart anything you can do to strengthen it the value is there it's like an insurance policy so yeah so your your legal agreements are so essential finding a lawyer who's got a background in corporate law who understands partnerships

[00:34:22] who has that experience that is it'll be the best money you ever spend when and if it goes sideways right so that's important it's something that it'll save you and it's worth it it's priceless

[00:34:36] and then yes we I started the co-founders hub it's about to launch with products and services that support entrepreneurs throughout their journey so for those who are looking for a co-founder we have our self assessment which again this is me helping you be intentional about who

[00:34:57] is this person I need to bring on board and I think a lot of times we just go to the default of skill set I'm starting a tech company I need a software engineer or I'm starting a restaurant

[00:35:08] I need a chef and it's like no there's actually some really other really important factors that you need to consider different personality types your life stage you know what are you know how much

[00:35:20] time can you commit those sort of things become really really valuable and so the self assessment helps you walk yourself who am I what do I bring to the table what do I need from the next person

[00:35:31] so different products at different stages that's what the co-founders hubs love it I love it I can't wait I'm not doing a business right now but I'm gonna do it anyway yeah the assessment's great

[00:35:42] just to help you identify yeah what you bring to the stable is that what's that skill set that I have and it even can help if you're not going to bring a co-founder on what team do I need surrounding

[00:35:53] me and that and it's helpful for that too well and you go into that in great detail around selecting yeah did you make up the the pike I did okay so talk about pike because I just

[00:36:04] thought that's that's perfect yes describe what you're kind of looking for but yeah maybe tell tell the audience yeah so often so I have had a few different business ideas in my time and I would

[00:36:16] identify people that I thought would be excellent co-founders and so I would pitch them my idea and then what I would do is I would sit back and I would wait for them to call me because I

[00:36:30] didn't want to chase anybody and I really I remember with Steven and I when we first would start a business I mean there was 3 a.m. texts there was like the 7 a.m. are you are you wake up yet I have

[00:36:41] this idea you know and or an emails or whatever it's just you can't not think about it and I started to think how can I help people identify if that person truly wants to because another

[00:36:54] of the big issues that happened between early co-founders is one person says I'm into it but then when push comes to shove money gets in when the money the capital needs to be invested

[00:37:04] or the time needs to put kit put in they go m.i.a. and so I thought how can you do that so pike is passion interest knowledge and excitement and so those four things are ways to sort of identify

[00:37:20] is this person truly excited about this venture and there's they're very similar but but but there are unique little ways that you can really like I could detective is this person on

[00:37:36] board or what and it's the closest I could come to try like an algorithm or like an equation of how to do that because it's it is a gut thing and it is a bit of a a bit of luck and a little bit of

[00:37:51] hope but there are some some things that you can identify and people to say yeah I think they're on board I love it when I read it I'm like I'm using this but it's good to also you explain

[00:38:04] kind of how to kind of interpret it yes exactly the assessments help yes yeah I I think you did a phenomenal job I'm super excited to give this to people yeah yeah it's much needed

[00:38:17] again it's surprising how little attention is put on the spotlight of the co-founder partnership and I think part of that is going back to what I said it is such an intimate relationship and it is something that it intertwines your personal life your professional life your spiritual

[00:38:36] life and that relationship becomes very intertwined and and because of that it it becomes very private and you and you need to be on vulnerable about it and when things go sideways you don't have a lot

[00:38:50] of people to turn to your investors will be terrified if you said I don't talk to my co-founder right now I'm breaking you know your staff your employees you can't go to them and share

[00:39:00] what's going on behind the curtain you know so you and it's a very isolating experience and so so the idea in this was to really give that tool to people as a resource both when they're starting

[00:39:14] and when they're in it but when they're alone in the conflict that's another time that this is the voice this is something that can help guide you through mediation or that unfortunate moment

[00:39:25] when you realize you've got to exit you've got to either find a way to get out of the partnership sell a company how do I handle this with my team how do I how do I exit without killing the business

[00:39:37] there's a whole lot of really deep things to consider and so the book is an attempt to really walk people through that as a guide yeah it's nice you kind of had the whole kind of evolution

[00:39:48] right yeah I think that's important so my daughters they wanted to ask well they couldn't get that's right we did it during school time sorry but they had a question because they

[00:39:59] they have an interest and then even you know my eldest son they're all they want to start a business and they understand and I've read you know your your comments around it can be dangerous

[00:40:12] yeah do you have advice for them on how to to basically kind of I guess maybe a recipe that they could follow to have some success as a family business yeah yeah so I'm in the middle of writing

[00:40:29] book number two so the second book's called the co-founders handbook family edition perfect and I did not yeah so part of the reason I really wanted to separate that is because I have seen the destruction of families at such a level when family businesses go sideways and

[00:40:53] I think in this respect with its two let's say strangers or unrelated people in business together if it doesn't work out they can close the doors and go home to family but with family that

[00:41:06] doesn't happen and so the level of caution and risk that's at play I definitely I'm the first thing I identify is you have to in like 10 times the intentionality that this book recommends and and almost do it by the book in order to ensure that nothing is

[00:41:36] the family isn't destroyed in if something was to go sideways and I think the first page of the book of the family edition book the first page I think is going to say don't do it

[00:41:49] but if you do read on and I and I truly believe that because you just really need to know the risks so what what is the most important thing to do if you're going to be in a family business again it is about identifying boundaries

[00:42:09] it's going to be about really identifying clearly roles here's what you're responsible for and then a very very mature look at what is important in life and identifying you know family first so talk to me about succession because that's a big issue especially with family businesses

[00:42:36] people are considering you know basically passing their business on and that's their that's their exit strategy yeah yeah you know I did a lot of research into family businesses that was one of the key piece because my husband had a family business

[00:42:53] he took over from his father and so I really delved into the succession and and my takeaway when it was over was don't pass your business on to your kids sell it give them money

[00:43:09] I help them to do their thing but because again it is there's so much complexity that goes on in that they're you know having having exited a company that is still operating

[00:43:23] that I started it's like having a baby and it's when the baby launches and goes off on its own and you are just there to watch it and wish it's best that is such a difficult thing to do

[00:43:34] and so succession when you hand it off to anybody whether someone bought your business or whether or not you're passing it into your kids for the person who founded that business that emotional

[00:43:46] you know breakaway can be very difficult and then you add on that the complexity that it's family where there's so many like cliches like the second generation destroys the business and or you know the founders always come back it becomes really important to recognize how

[00:44:07] that can not just be difficult for those involved but actually be difficult for the business model as well because you have a team who's maybe still attached to the initial founder and then that

[00:44:21] or and the new founders have to get rid of everybody so they've got a new guard and the old guard is gone so it becomes very very complex and very difficult and so I think

[00:44:31] I think if you're able to sell your business pass on to kids I think that's a really valuable way to do it and if you can't like I know I'm saying it the same thing over and over again but be

[00:44:44] intentional be intentional about what is important here is that the money is at the business or is it the relationship between the family members that's involved so it's very complex and I'm just always very much about about being helping people be very serious about this because it's important

[00:45:03] yeah I'll take that into heart because I you know I want to pass something on to my children so of course it's just money yeah exactly exactly exactly well and your advice right like your

[00:45:14] advice and helping them build into build into their lives early on your kids are young so it's like pass on this knowledge that you're giving them so that they can go and aspire for their dreams

[00:45:26] like really truly their dreams and they're not sort of held on by what these expectations from that a business that already exists right so you you pass that knowledge on to them and then

[00:45:38] help them go out into their dreams that's priceless well so speaking of the kids tell me about the school that you're working on at the academy yeah yeah so um uh so when Stephen and I graduated

[00:45:52] high school we never did college or university and so one of the things that as we were building our businesses we kept saying why didn't they teach us this in school and I remember thinking

[00:46:03] to myself if I have kids I really want to have them have a very practical education and so about my kids were in grade three or four uh I looked at what they were learning and they were in a

[00:46:18] fantastic school an IB school I loved it loved the community but I still looked at the curriculum and I said this is not applicable to today this is not this is not real life in 2020 2020 um so I

[00:46:35] said I'm in a homeschool so at that time I had just left the day-to-day at Trilio I had the time and I thought I'm in a homeschool so for two years I homeschooled my kids with a focus on

[00:46:44] entrepreneurship financial literacy and life skills because life skills matter and so that is what I started and then when COVID hit I had a lot of families come to me and say listen I just

[00:46:58] really got insight into what my kids are learning and you know you just triggered what you do what's happening there and so a group of families of us got together and we decided to start a

[00:47:11] school uh an online school because families were from different parts and again with the focus on those three aspects and we started the Learn Launch Academy um live Learn Launch Academy

[00:47:24] and uh it's an online school we have a small cohort 12 kids uh but uh again the focus is on these key pieces and I have another acronym now that I applied to my curriculum I guess I'm

[00:47:39] an acronym girl um and I called the PERT curriculum and so when we designed the curriculum it had to be practical experiential relevant and tailored so you know when your kids are in school

[00:47:53] and they look at you and they go what am I ever going to use this I can honestly say to the students and the kids in our school that if we're teaching this you need this and I looked at

[00:48:05] like my life as an entrepreneur as a mother as a member of a community as having been a boss having been an employee all the things that I needed to know and that's what goes into our curriculum

[00:48:17] so we teach life skills everything from we put them in cooking school to learn how to cook a chicken to how to sew a button to a first aid course to how to network how to um how to start a business

[00:48:30] how to come up with an idea how to market what is AI all the things that are happening today that's what we teach it's incredible yeah so you're the small cohort now are you thinking to

[00:48:41] expand this I don't know I have a lot on the go but it is you know education is on everybody's radar and there's not a single person that I've met who when they hear what we're doing isn't saying

[00:48:55] like either whether it's they're just unhappy with their kids or learning ideologically in school or what they're learning educationally academically people are looking for a new resource so um we are debating what we're going to do with that we have an incredible curriculum that

[00:49:10] technically a homeschooling parent could literally every day they knew exactly what we you know we write down everything so we might go that direction we may expand to more classes there's a lot of

[00:49:22] opportunity but I got too much on my plate so I don't know I need a co-founder in that no that's a big and I think you may have outreach so if people want to to reach out to you to talk

[00:49:34] you know about the school or other things how what's the best way to reach you you know what honestly LinkedIn is the best option and just reach out to me ask your question I'll try and get to it

[00:49:45] quickly but even on my my LinkedIn I do definitely talk about a lot of these topics and there's ways to get involved so the co-founders hub is another place to get some more information

[00:49:56] and then livelearnlaunch.com is the school and there's ways to contact through there as well Wonderful well do you have any organizations local organizations you want to just give a shout out to

[00:50:07] as we knock here? Yeah actually you know what I have I sit on the board of an incredible local non-profit called Ally Global what they do is they help aid women and children rescued out of sex trafficking so they have organizations in Nepal and Cambodia and now

[00:50:26] they're working closely with the Canadian government because unfortunately human trafficking is a reality even here and so Ally Global is doing incredible incredible work to help facilitate facilitate healing for those who are it have been in that situation and are rescued

[00:50:46] and as well to bring awareness so ally.org is a place and I'll put all the links in the initial notes but yeah thanks thank you so much for joining me this was a lot of fun I've never

[00:50:58] done an outdoor podcast so in the wild yeah exactly I love it thank you for doing this we'll do a beach one next time yeah yeah we'll be doing more warm locales awesome thank you thank you